A Sidewalk Conversation

TL;DR - I met a theist on the sidewalk yesterday, and we talked for 1.5 hours about the existence of a god. I refuted pretty much all of his arguments and felt good afterwards.

Yesterday was not the first time I've been stopped by an Asian Christian on campus to have them pitch a Bible study or other spiritual gathering. (They seem to enjoy bugging people with headphones.) Previous times I've declined, divulged my atheism, or even gone so far as to insinuate their acceptance of slavery and sexism and point out the annoying oversight of the term "crusade", as in "Campus Crusade for Christ".

This time, however, I was willing to take the encounter and run with it (actually, stand very still), asking the person to defend his beliefs and answer the questions I had. I can't remember it all beyond specific moments of what I thought was mutual clarity, and it wouldn't be particularly fruitful for me to continually attempt to recreate a play-by-play. What I can do, however, is identify major (and turning) points in the discussion, and how it became a defining event for me.

What a really must do, though, is thank the multiple sources from which I pulled my arguments. First and foremost is The Atheist Experience (whose podcast I was listening to as this person stopped me). I wouldn't have even had that conversation if I hadn't have seen clips of this show and become a regular watcher. I wouldn't be as passionate as I am about the issue of the existence of a god. I now view my atheism as a defining personal trait, while before it was closer to wishy-washy, generally-accepting "agnosticism".

Specific arguments I can recall from that show are numerous. The strongest emotional argument involved co-host Jeff Dee pinning a theist down to admit that he believed Jeff was going to hell, according to the theist's holy book. The purpose of this was to demonstrate that such a punishment was far too severe and unreasonable to easily own up to. My opponent followed suit, and I felt like it was substantially impactful. This and many other arguments made the case that his god was essentially evil an easy one to prove.

The best part was that these arguments and ideas flowed so naturally from hearing discussions that I rarely, if ever, struggled to counter any claim. Historical facts of the Bible? Not so fast, buddy. There's no documented evidence of, for example, walking on water (thanks, Matt Dillahunty). Liar, lunatic, or lord? No, you forgot "mistaken" or any other of the multitude of options for the origins of today's powerful religions (thanks TAE in general). I would have pounced on NOMA if he brought it up, thanks to The God Delusion.

The most powerful argument I used continually was the simple idea that whatever he was saying was immensely similar to what a Muslim would tell me in the same situation. Your personal experience with your god is great, but why don't you believe the billions in the Middle East who've had "experiences"? I borrowed a friend's idea of referencing a ridiculous "holy book" of mine that, while it didn't exist, exemplified the point that you don't have to read all religious texts to disbelieve them (in all feasibility). I happily ended with the Dawkins mantra of "you're an atheist with regards to every other god that has ever existed. I just take one step further."

Afterward I made a quick list of "arguments that work", which I find pretty succinct and effective:

• Islam does that same, but you reject it.
• Have your read my 10,000 page "holy book"?
• Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
• Scientific evidence pushes gods farther away from probability.
• Why worship someone who condones eternal torture for finite crimes [Bible specific]?
• Do you support slavery, sexism, animal sacrifice [Bible specific]?
• You don't need divine command to have morals.
• There doesn't have to be a purpose/meaning of life defined by a supernatural being.
• God could have done better.

I'm surprised he didn't touch on the origin of the universe or many other subjects. He definitely had some standard arguments ready but obviously wasn't expecting to have everything refuted. Instead, too many times he would simply resort to poetic language about my "heart" or tell me that through reading the Bible I will come to "know God". Each time I would resort to "argument that works #1" and he would change the subject. He also grazed upon asking for explanations of things like courage, love, and fear, to which I responded with descriptions of the chemistry in the brain. I relished in the chance to detail the joys of maintaining your own morals, goals, and outlook on life without a Big Brother.

The entire discussion was extremely civil and immense patience was displayed on both sides (if I do say so myself). As I said, this person was an Asian Christian, so his English and pronunciation weren't perfect ("face" = "faith"). Additionally, I sensed that he didn't always properly assess my tone, which was occasionally vindictive or arrogant. This I see as a good thing, seeing as anyone else would have blown me off far too soon. ...Perhaps even the other way around if my opponent was too stubborn to answer my questions and accusations. Overall, I must applaud this man for going to such lengths to remain in the conversation. I am truly grateful.

The discussion lasted for an hour and a half, mostly broken off by his small attempts to leave, two friends passing by between classes, and what I can only assume to be (mutually) other engagements. I think, too, that he was done talking to me. After repeating that I must "know God in my heart" for the fourth or fifth time, I didn't think he had any more arguments.

Never before have I walked away from a discussion with such a feeling of pride, satisfaction, and confidence. Hopefully my friend at least left with a hint of skepticism.