Arguing with theists on the Internet again this week. I spent a long time constructing this post in response to a long, winding, rambling block of text that covered even more than I responded to here. That's always annoying, as I note in my opening paragraph:
This is frustrating. You say so many things that are outright false or unproven and stray from the topic to practically preach that I'm finding it difficult to respond. Even my last post didn't address half of what you threw out, not because it's challenging, but because I just don't have the patience or time. So what to tackle...
1. You didn't address the full question. How do you KNOW that it's the Christian god trying to contact you? Could it not be the god of the Quran trying to turn you from your evil ways? There are thousands, millions of people on the other side of the world saying they know their god, feel his presence, and speak to him. But they're talking about Allah. Both of you can't be right. How do you know which one?
2. The Bible can be a compelling story if read in the right way. I understand that. So can The Lord of the Rings. Just because the story is good or the characters inspiring doesn't make it TRUE.
3. "I believe these things because of the Bible which has been proven." This is quite possibly the greatest oversimplification and logical fallacy concentration of anything else you've said so far. I'm no expert on the historicity of Jesus or the Bible. In fact, it's my weakest subject in the question of the Christian god's existence. But allow me to illustrate a few points. Many places in the Bible still exist today, of course. Major historical events it describes we have external evidence for and can verify. The story of Jesus? Not so much. The claims of the supernatural? Not so much. Where is the confirming evidence (outside of the Bible) that these things occurred? Furthermore, you know that the Bible has been edited and translated multiple times, right? Don't scholars also believe that Mark is, in fact, not written by Mark?
4. Anything that can be known can be proven through experimentation. Let me tell you about this prayer study, and ask you a simple question at the end. Here are some quotes:
"STEP investigators enrolled 1,802 bypass surgery patients from six hospitals and randomly assigned each to one of three groups: 604 patients received intercessory prayer after being informed they may or may not receive prayers (Group 1); 597 patients did not receive prayer after being informed they may or may not receive prayer (Group 2); and 601 patients received intercessory prayer after being informed they would receive it (Group 3)."
"Some patients were told they may or may not receive intercessory prayer: complications occurred in 52 percent of those who received prayer (Group 1) versus 51 percent of those who did not receive prayer (Group 2). Complications occurred in 59 percent of patients who were told they would receive prayer (Group 3) versus 52 percent, who also received prayer, but were uncertain of receiving it (Group 1). Major complications and thirty-day mortality were similar across the three groups."
http://www.templeton.org/pdfs/press_releases/060407STEP.pdf
Here’s the question: why does it matter that people were counting behind the scenes? Does God purposefully throw off the numbers to make sure we don’t see it? All the successful prayers are like a tiny test, are they not? Is comparing two similar prayers allowed by God? Where is the line? If you say prayer works because your cancer went away, how is that not a rudimentary test of prayer? All that’s different is the sample size.
The reality is that people think prayer “works” because they remember the hits and forget the misses. People remember praying to find their car keys and finding them. They forget about praying for something that doesn’t work out. This is exactly like horoscopes. You remember the times the horoscopes were right but forget them when they were way off. Prayer works no better than by random chance; this is demonstrated.
5. This is getting long. I’ll be quick. Just because lots of people believe something doesn’t make it true. EVERYONE believed the Sun revolved around the Earth until it was demonstrated to be the other way around. Let me try something here to let you see why what you said is wrong:
“I mean if this belief in Islam has been going on for hundreds of years and places in the Quran have been found... All these people who never met each other recounted the same sightings and were all compelled the same way, there’s gotta be some truth to it. You don’t find it intriguing that all these people say the same thing?”
I removed a bit that doesn’t apply to either holy text. Your belief that the Bible is a firmly grounded and confirmed text is false. The Quran isn’t true, either, but it’s useful for me to “support” Islam to show why your arguments don’t hold up. Consider it “Devil’s advocate”.
